Curse

End · Jan 22, 2010, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Anyone see that this is now on the in-game announcement section?

...

And i thought they were just trying to piss off the guru people...seems like they want everyone mad...

Nerel · Jan 22, 2010, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Despite the fact that this report occurred over the holidays, when the majority of NCsoft employees were home with their families, our security team responded immediately with a point-by-point testing and analysis of the erroneous concerns that were raised. As a result of the point-by-point testing and analysis, our security team concluded no critical vulnerabilities had been demonstrated or identified, but our security team continues to research, to monitor closely, and to implement security improvements to address any potential weaknesses raised.

The most stupid thing that I've heard...

Apparently the security team only tests the 'the erroneous' security concerns of the community, presumably ignoring all the valid security concerns that have been raised.

TheRemedy · Jan 22, 2010, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I have a suggestion: Take the couple people who are the soldiers in this "war" and let them do something else, because honestly it appears they are losing. Take the billable hours you would have paid them, and use that money to invest in hardware upgrades for the few remaining guildwars players. The "war" against lag is a much more serious issue in my opinion.

Lord Dagon · Jan 23, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

hmm so let me get this straight on my earlier post. Based on what others have said, im not mad at you, but i will be not "skipping in a rainbow of preety flowers.", im gonna proved and example. Ok billie and peggie live in the same house, w/ a computer w/ GW installed on it. They only have 1 account which they both share. Lets say Anet reads a comment log of theirs saying that they are getting off and their brother is getting on. Based on what has been earlier described they could get a perma-ban. They are two different people that Are accessing 1 account. So by defintion anet could lay down the ban-hammer(halo players know that term only too well ;p) and perma-ban the account? Now, they probably wouldnt because,yet anyway, anet isnt a team of robots(or they are automated response anyone?, and they do have a morale concious. so is this scenario likely? possibly due to EULA. Is it probable? no. But, the moment 1 person buys an account for themselves then gets their friend to help them w/ it's RED ENGINE GOING GORED ENGINE RED ENGINE GORED. Wahts the difference? 1 thing is w/ a brother and sister, the other is between 2 good friends that have been playing for forever.

Shakti · Jan 23, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

hmm so let me get this straight on my earlier post. Based on what others have said, im not mad at you, but i will be not "skipping in a rainbow of preety flowers.", im gonna proved and example. Ok billie and peggie live in the same house, w/ a computer w/ GW installed on it. They only have 1 account which they both share. Lets say Anet reads a comment log of theirs saying that they are getting off and their brother is getting on. Based on what has been earlier described they could get a perma-ban. They are two different people that Are accessing 1 account. So by defintion anet could lay down the ban-hammer(halo players know that term only too well ;p) and perma-ban the account? Now, they probably wouldnt because,yet anyway, anet isnt a team of robots(or they are automated response anyone?, and they do have a morale concious. so is this scenario likely? possibly due to EULA. Is it probable? no. But, the moment 1 person buys an account for themselves then gets their friend to help them w/ it's RED ENGINE GOING GORED ENGINE RED ENGINE GORED. Wahts the difference? 1 thing is w/ a brother and sister, the other is between 2 good friends that have been playing for forever.

There is no difference. Siblings, friends, spouses or ppl who've never met. Sharing accounts is against the EULA and bannable. Do ppl do it? Yes. Are they banned if caught? Yes. Does it stop ppl from ignoring the rule? No.

They ban for account sharing regardless of relationship. Not sure I understand your argument.

EDIT TO ADD:

I went back and read your earlier post. Your friend's account was fairly banned. Account sharing is illegal, doesn't matter who you are in relation to the account owner. Stating in open chat you were on another person's account wasn't smart. Contacting support basically saying "We weren't selling/hacking accounts, just violating EULA" didn't help.

**cosyfiep** · Jan 23, 2010, 02:23 AM // 02:23

one person per account....I am not supposed to play on my husbands account nor is he allowed to play on mine. It in the EULA.
You and your little brother should have your own accounts, you and your friend should have your own accounts.....if you have problems there is only ONE owner, not two, 10, 20...only one.
So yeah there is a problem there, you can not play on someone elses account.
Has it been done, well yeah....have you ever gone over the speed limit? The rules are there for reasons.

pumpkin pie · Jan 23, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I don't see them say no! we don't want your money when my sister is buying stuffs for me using the online store thru my account

Lord Dagon · Jan 23, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

ok i get it. I'm not happy about it but i get it. oh admn to note: im an only child, i just used that example based on a "typical" family relationship(i.e 2 siblings getting on a comp togehter to go kill stuff and curse in AC lol)

Do i think the EULA is right? no. Will i do anything about it? no. Am i mad my friends account(in my eyes) got un-fairly perma banned? yes. But there is nothing i can do. Its in the Eula u are forced to essentially sign to play the game. Will i be buying less account in the future due to this? oh heck yea.

oh and on a side note: i heard ppl earlier in this thread are trying to get a GW2 dont sign list. If that comes available ill sign it. NCSoft with this message and their trigger happy ban-hammering have made me see they just arent a great company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

I don't see them say no! we don't want your money when my sister is buying stuffs for me using the online store thru my account

i lol'd at this. If i had a sibling and they bought that stuff i would hit them w/ the NCSoft stick while on the NCSoft tree(hit in the face w/ stupidity and hit all the way down w/ the ugly branch/idiocracy)

edit: i didnt say in "open chat i had someone else's account". When i got unfairly perma-banned for trying to hack? (was offering help to ppl in proph and noobs got mad for some reason), and when i was exspalaigning to NCSoft to get the account back did i say it wasnt my account. I never said to the noobs in LA" hey look this isnt my account that i;m helpign my friend w/" just to set the record stright ;p

Shakti · Jan 23, 2010, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

edit: i didnt say in "open chat i had someone else's account". When i got unfairly perma-banned for trying to hack? (was offering help to ppl in proph and noobs got mad for some reason), and when i was exspalaigning to NCSoft to get the account back did i say it wasnt my account. I never said to the noobs in LA" hey look this isnt my account that i;m helpign my friend w/" just to set the record stright ;p

OK i apologize. You said in the earlier post multiple ppl PMed you calling you an account stealing @#$! so I assumed they had reason to know it wasn't your account as it's kinda random otherwise....and coincidental, as it in fact wasn't your account.

Lord Dagon · Jan 23, 2010, 06:50 PM // 18:50

no they didnt know. Im guessing they got hacked or knew a guy that got hacked by getting help. i'm ASSuming about that but it would exsplain there behavior. But no, i never reply to those, i always get a few of them in pre b/c(despite what you would think) alot of them are noobs. So hey, people are gonna be ppl. Am i mad that my friend got screwed out of $60? yea. Did i pay him for that? yes. Are we ever gonna do it again. probably but more hush hush and through emailing or vent ;p

Regina Buenaobra · Jan 23, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

I know some of you may not feel as if you've been listened to, or that we're taking your feedback seriously, but I want to assure you that we are listening, we are monitoring your comments here, and we are taking your feedback to heart. I've been working closely with the NCsoft security team on these issues, and escalating your concerns to them, as well as to top executives. Our security team has reviewed feedback and perceived vulnerabilities of the NCsoft website and account processes that were relayed to them from forum threads, PMs, emails, IMs, wiki posts, etc.--escalated by me and other ArenaNet staff members. While we're aware that Scott's post did not go over well with you all, because you feel as if we're brushing things under the rug; I just want to assure you that we’re not. Again, your concerns and feedback are important to us, and this is why the security team is deeply involved in research and monitoring to keep your accounts safe, and to proactively work to address potential weaknesses. I have been advocating for more information and details to be shared with you all. Please keep in mind that a certain amount of oversight is in place before security-specific information can be released to the public. So, while we can't share all the information you want from us, or go into great detail about internal processes, please be assured concrete steps are being taken to refine security measures. There will be change, and it’s through your help and influence that this change is happening. Thank you all for continuing to bring these issues to our awareness. And to those who contacted me privately to provide more information, I also thank you for taking that step.

Tom Swift · Jan 23, 2010, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

While we're aware that Scott's post did not go over well with you all, because you feel as if we're brushing things under the rug;

It was not just because it made it sound like NCsoft was brushing things under the rug. It did not go over well because of the arogant attitude with which he wrote it. From Scot's letter, for example:

For example, a thread on a third-party Guild Wars forum this New Year's attracted a good deal of attention. It detailed a list of security vulnerabilities that supposedly had been discovered on our account website, ending with the alarmist note that "the only responsible thing NCsoft can do is to shut off their website, as soon as possible."...... our security team responded immediately with a point-by-point testing and analysis of the erroneous concerns that were raised.

There was no real reason for the words I bolded except to insult the community. All three of them are negative and contain the pre-judgment that the person raising the concern was just blowing smoke - leaving us with the impression that ANet didn't even bother checking before making a decision about the existence of the security problem and was only going through the motions to obtain a pre-determined "all's fine with the world" result.

The only one of the three words that served a purpose other than to castigate the community for concern was the word "supposedly." And this could easily have been replaced with "were believed to have been" or some other less negative phrasing.

The way Scot phrased his told us that not only did the security team not find any security problems but that he wished to attack back at the community for causing him extra work - hence the very logical conclusion that he was brushing it all under the rug.

Regardless, his attitude is such that I certainly will not buy anything from a company that allows an employee with such disdain for his customers to post official statements.

It shows not only his arrogance but the unforgivable stupidity of the company which employs him.

Oh, and Kudos to the Guru team – now that is how you are supposed to handle a security problem!

End · Jan 24, 2010, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

Oh, and Kudos to the Guru team – now that is how you are supposed to handle a security problem!

Yes at least they admit that there was an issue and fixed it...

On this note I vote the guru admins take over ncsoft....

Quote:

It shows not only his arrogance but the unforgivable stupidity of the company which employs him.

Scott didn't actually write it

HawkofStorms · Jan 24, 2010, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Scott didn't actually write it

Odd... his name is on it. Unless you have insider info, I'm going to assume he did.

And even if he didn't... somebody at the company did. It's not like a "statement fairy" wrote it. Thus, the company is responsible for this.

And, as a lawyer, I'm insulted by the fact that the statement either a) wasn't cleared with legal b) it was and the lawyer's advice was ignored or c) NCSoft's legal department didn't even realize the libelous nature of the statement.

karlik · Jan 24, 2010, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

The way Scot phrased his told us that not only did the security team not find any security problems but that he wished to attack back at the community for causing him extra work - hence the very logical conclusion that he was brushing it all under the rug.

Regardless, his attitude is such that I certainly will not buy anything from a company that allows an employee with such disdain for his customers to post official statements.

It shows not only his arrogance but the unforgivable stupidity of the company which employs him.

Yup. The impression I got is that we are all either idiots or liars, or both. The guy has no knowledge of PR and should not be allowed to contact or deal with the public in any form. If I was his boss, I'd make him put a disclaimer in any unofficial posts in any forums that the views expressed are not those of NCSoft or Anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Scott didn't actually write it

How do you figure? The first five words are "Greetings, all. I'm Scott Jennings".

Tom Swift · Jan 24, 2010, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

Scott didn't actually write it

If he did not then I apologize to him and castigate NCsoft doubly for using him as a front man to deflect criticism from themselves - yet another example of their arrogance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And even if he didn't... somebody at the company did. It's not like a "statement fairy" wrote it. Thus, the company is responsible for this.

lol - turns out this supposed letter was only an alarmist rumor and thorough testing shows that no one actually wrote this non-existent document. It was merely an accidental random arrangement of ones and zeroes which were interpreted by the readers as a message from NCsoft. Now, if you will excuse the NCsoft team, we heard some rumors of inappropriate character rnames and have to brush off the ban hammer to deal with these serious breaches of the EULA.

Shakti · Jan 24, 2010, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

lol - turns out this supposed letter was only an alarmist rumor and thorough testing shows that no one actually wrote this non-existent document. It was merely an accidental random arrangement of ones and zeroes which were interpreted by the readers as a message from NCsoft. Now, if you will excuse the NCsoft team, we heard some rumors of inappropriate character rnames and have to brush off the ban hammer to deal with these serious breaches of the EULA.

/win, you made me LOL

Regina, while we appreciate your effort to defend NCsoft's statement, and your assertion that it is all being taken seriously, I'm not sure a statement from you can undo the damage here. Both my husband and myself, our RL friends who play GW and many, many players here on Guru have been amazed first by the security issues, and now downright offended by the demeaning and belittling "official statement" they released. There is no way my husband or I will be spending any further money on a company who goes out of it's way to not only blow off legitimate security concerns of it's customers, but then deliberately insult them.

Chthon · Jan 24, 2010, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

It was not just because it made it sound like NCsoft was brushing things under the rug. It did not go over well because of the arogant attitude with which he wrote it. From Scot's letter, for example:

For example, a thread on a third-party Guild Wars forum this New Year's attracted a good deal of attention. It detailed a list of security vulnerabilities that supposedly had been discovered on our account website, ending with the alarmist note that "the only responsible thing NCsoft can do is to shut off their website, as soon as possible."...... our security team responded immediately with a point-by-point testing and analysis of the erroneous concerns that were raised.

There was no real reason for the words I bolded except to insult the community. All three of them are negative and contain the pre-judgment that the person raising the concern was just blowing smoke - leaving us with the impression that ANet didn't even bother checking before making a decision about the existence of the security problem and was only going through the motions to obtain a pre-determined "all's fine with the world" result.

The only one of the three words that served a purpose other than to castigate the community for concern was the word "supposedly." And this could easily have been replaced with "were believed to have been" or some other less negative phrasing.

The way Scot phrased his told us that not only did the security team not find any security problems but that he wished to attack back at the community for causing him extra work - hence the very logical conclusion that he was brushing it all under the rug.

Regardless, his attitude is such that I certainly will not buy anything from a company that allows an employee with such disdain for his customers to post official statements.

It shows not only his arrogance but the unforgivable stupidity of the company which employs him.

Oh, and Kudos to the Guru team – now that is how you are supposed to handle a security problem!

This.

The clear implication of the highlighted words is that those people who went out of their way to help NCSoft by finding and compiling the security problems with their website must be liars or fools or both. That's simply not true. The problems exist. Many of us have seen them with our own eyes. To deny the self-evident truth insults our intelligence. To call us liars insults our honor. And you wonder why "Scott's post did not go over well with [us]"?

I realize that Scott did not write that letter, or at least not in its entirety. The contents of Flubber's link on page 4 make that pretty clear. Still, someone at NCSoft was responsible for it, and that someone seems to be remarkably talented at pissing off NCSoft's s (soon-to-be-former-)customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And, as a lawyer, I'm insulted by the fact that the statement either a) wasn't cleared with legal b) it was and the lawyer's advice was ignored or c) NCSoft's legal department didn't even realize the libelous nature of the statement.

No kidding. Martin Alvito and I had an ongoing discussion about the defamatory nature of this statement earlier in the thread, but we curtailed it because it was heading off-topic. Anywho, my take is that there's no way a halfway-competent lawyer wrote this for Scott; it must have been a corporate type.

End · Jan 24, 2010, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlik

How do you figure? The first five words are "Greetings, all. I'm Scott Jennings".

posts 75 and on in this thread have known it pretty much wasn't him who wrote it...more like some higher ups who gave to him so he gets the most hate...
Try and keep up please...

Alesa · Jan 24, 2010, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

I know some of you may not feel as if you've been listened to, or that we're taking your feedback seriously, but I want to assure you that we are listening, we are monitoring your comments here, and we are taking your feedback to heart. I've been working closely with the NCsoft security team on these issues, and escalating your concerns to them, as well as to top executives. Our security team has reviewed feedback and perceived vulnerabilities of the NCsoft website and account processes that were relayed to them from forum threads, PMs, emails, IMs, wiki posts, etc.--escalated by me and other ArenaNet staff members. While we're aware that Scott's post did not go over well with you all, because you feel as if we're brushing things under the rug; I just want to assure you that we’re not. Again, your concerns and feedback are important to us, and this is why the security team is deeply involved in research and monitoring to keep your accounts safe, and to proactively work to address potential weaknesses. I have been advocating for more information and details to be shared with you all. Please keep in mind that a certain amount of oversight is in place before security-specific information can be released to the public. So, while we can't share all the information you want from us, or go into great detail about internal processes, please be assured concrete steps are being taken to refine security measures. There will be change, and it’s through your help and influence that this change is happening. Thank you all for continuing to bring these issues to our awareness. And to those who contacted me privately to provide more information, I also thank you for taking that step.

Besides the wall of text here, that's a very nice response. Thank you Regina!